>Science recognizes that people and other animals who have fully recovered from flu aren't walking flu dispensers.
You should actually read what Rasmussen is saying. ie that this is nowhere near as certain as you're making it.
>while never criticizing dangerous gain of function research which is the real danger.
The real danger, where SARS1 & SARS2 came from and where H5n1 high path influenza could easily come from is *the meat industry*. That's where the real danger was, and since very little has changed and given the scale of both industrial farming and the number of people in contact with animals -- *that* is where the big danger is and remains. You don't need gain of function research for a global pandemic, as SARS2 proves - just enough human contact with the meat industry and low enough biosafety precautions involving the processing of animals into meat.
( And I say this as someone who just munched on some pork gyozas, and who has enough bloodsugar to get me through this post because of said meat products )
The “scientists" supporting the cull of the ostriches do not see the governmental tyranny being pushed on the people and animals. If one of them even mentions that fraudulent PCR test that drove covid hysteria and subsequent bioweapon injections in their argument, I toss them in the waste receptacle. We have not moved away from the covid bullshit with these fake scientists.
So in other words, you’re just as big a conspiracy theorist as the MAGA crowd in the USA, don’t cruelly understand ANY of the science, think your feelings are far more important than the health and safety of Canad’as food supply AND it’s citizens and are very easily manipulated to, HATE and RAGE, and believe the same BULLSHIT that Trump and his sycophantic followers used to DESTROY THE USA, “government tyranny”!
I guarantee you’d be in the hospital,in a freaking second if YOU or your kid came down with this virus because it KILLS FAST!
I am so fucking tired of MORONS who know ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING about science of government or anything else but sop up every bit of BULLSHIT, spread all over them by people who have massive ulterior motives and think they’ve been anointed with gold!
Have you actually followed this story? Note the actual farmer's feelings about this in the comments. Also, several developments quick have recently come to light...
1. The "ostrich farmer's" don't pay their bills. There are now 2 BC Supreme Court decisions against them for failure to pay their debts (these cases precede their issues with CIFA).
2. The letter they've made available to local news media purporting to be from a local First Nations group is fraudulent (not clear yet who wrote the letter).
3. Do you understand the trade arrangements that Canada has undertaken with respect to poultry and poultry disease? The "farms" stance on this case is endangering the livelyhoods of actual farmers.
4. You do realize that a flock of 400 ostriches is not enough to make a living from.. so this seems like a hobby farm that doesn't take animal health seriously.
Thank you for this. I've been following this story where I can, but as a regular Jane farmer in Northern BC with a little bit of biology under my belt, it's been too frustrating to pay too close attention to it. I sympathize with the farmers in that it would be devastating to cull their flock (I, too, would be devastated if I had to cull my meat animals because even though we eat them, we still love them), but i also recognize that at the end of the day, public health has to come first. This was a (mostly) easy to understand summary of the story and I enjoyed your wit throughout. Thanks again!
Fantastic, thorough, and educational piece. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with such nasty comments, but I very much appreciate learning from your experience and expertise so we all have the ammunition to debunk the misinformation being so rapidly shared. Your reasons for caring are also exactly mine. Thanks again. (I'm Sisu so I especially appreciate the kind shout outs.)
Thank you again for your truthful portrayal of evidence surrounding the Ostrich Gate. I for one love how honest you are with your reporting. We need you. Thanks.
Absolutely superb post. Thank you for calling out the disinformation and disassembling the pseudoscience brick by brick. I have been your fan for years, read your papers, and my admiration is only growing.
This article is based and winning. Best thing I’ve read all year. Thank you for not being silent about this. It’s nice to know the perspective from someone as experienced, tenured, and educated as yourself.
Politics and people affected with mind-viruses have no business in science, but I don’t expect some small town folk with no life scope to be able to “free think” their way into being educated.. I find it especially hilarious you’ve exposed that the farms group of followers are being conned into doing the farms dirty work just so the farms owner can continue to profiteer off of it under the guise of “freedom”, or whatever the hell they tell themselves to stroke their collective egos. The bottom line is these people have no idea what the hell they’re talking about, I mean their stories and reasons seem to change with every new day. I genuinely hope they read what you’ve wrote here from A to Z but you can only lead a horse to water. The UBC guy situation is informative and unfortunate. The existence of Jordan Peterson made me realize even the intellectual elite can be affected with mind viruses, so no surprise there.
Have a great evening, looking forward to the cull!
"looking forward to the cull" - Wishing a ‘cull’ is ugly. Regardless of the politics, those birds didn’t choose any of this - they’re innocent. Try compassion. And please, let's not celebrate cruelty.
Humans are apex predators, we have always killed to survive. This situation is no different. Human existence is ugly. Virtue signalling does nothing but stroke your own ego. Every meal you’ve ever nourished your body with was innocent too.
The only tragedy here was the neglect that the flock of birds were victims of. It was the neglect that allowed a condition for this disease to spread in the first place. And now, our tax dollars are being wasted because of some headstrong conspiracy theorist refusing to take accountability and the payout. It’s fucking selfish and I hope her ability to conduct this business gets revoked. The cull is a consequence of the tragedy, not the root.
Perhaps you’re unaware of the fact that these ostriches are still dying lmfao. Yes, you do continue to shed viral material after symptoms subside and for the sake of not spreading infection further the infected should continue to isolate post recovery for some time. H1N1 and Covid were not so distant memories.. But that’s besides the point, this incident has ballooned to the point of being a liability to the reputation of Canada’s poultry industry at large.
I’m sure the herd was treated real well - so well in fact that a viral outbreak was permitted to run wild and kill nearly a 1/4 of the herd! Treated so well that the neighbours felt the need to involve authorities because of animals dropping dead en masse. I applauded the responsible ownership of livestock, or wait, pets? Sorry, the story changes every hour..
Have you not followed all the information about the "farm"? Thing 1 - a flock of 400 Ostriches is not enough birds to make a living from selling the meat, even at restaurant (wholesale) prices...so these guys are not farmers who actually make an living from farming.
Thing 2 .. There have been a series of court cases involving ordinary commercial debt that the farm wasn't paying prior to this whole thing.
Thing 3. Faked letter stating First Nations support. It's not clear if the "farmers" wrote this letter, it may well have been written by "well meaning, but dishonest sympathizers"...
Thing 4. The wishful thinking that the farm was going to provide "research samples" or even actual pharmaceuticals ..
Thing 5. The potential regulatory problem the actual working poultry industry in Canada is risking (ie over 1 billion in foreign sales)...
I love you so fucking much for writing this and especially for debunking the UBC professor. I knew something was fishy with him but I couldn’t put my finger on it. God I am so happy. I read this entire article out loud to my partner and we literally were yelling “THANK YOU” when you said “PPC is Canada’s MAGA” and “the trucker convoy was Canada’s January 6th”. I have been just as invested in this story as you are. It’s all I think about because if the cull order is not followed through on it means that antivaxers won and our government has been undermined. We are so lucky to have you here in Canada. You are my hero.
You want a cull like this to go through just so a side can win? What a brainless and uneducated comment. Just wasted 20 seconds of my time reading it. I know what side you'll be rotting in.
It’s not so “a side can win” it’s so the rules and regulations of this country are not undermined by a group of uneducated jobless losers that do nothing but scroll Facebook all day. If you don’t believe in science go right ahead but don’t think you can make the rest of the country forget logic and rationality.
What a senseless comment. When it comes to rules and regulations, they've been known to regularly change when logic and facts are brought to the forefront. You try to speak as if to come off as highly intelligent and educated, yet being so emotionally far left, you present yourself as totally mindless to rational thinking. Killing less than 400 healthy ostriches is not going to make a difference in the spread of avian influenza H5N1 when there are millions of migratory birds flying across the continent twice a year infecting everything they come in contact with and defecate on! This has far more to do about government and WHO over reach for control then it has to do now with science at this point, especially seeing these birds have gained herd immunity remaining alive and thriving in health for over 260 days. Get your senseless head out of your a$$ and use some scientific logic here if you still have any left in that brain of yours. Reading the way you and a few of your far left minions interacted here is purely appearing to be on a fear based psychotic front in your attacks. It's unfortunate you can't speak without such a confrontational narcissistic approach. But perhaps that's all we can expect from such far left groups who would enjoys nothing but death it seems to those who don't see near to their point of views. For those who engage in such belittling behavior, recognizing your underlying insecurities as being fear based and working to address them can lead to much healthier interactions and an improved personal self-esteem including a sense of wellbeing overall. I suggest getting yourself some profound counselling which you may benefit from by exploring the root causes of your toxic behavior. Respect toward others without the name calling and childless insults can go a long ways when one is trying to get a point across. Signing out of this conversation thread as I will not further take part responding to such belittling bullying behavior tactics, and about to carry on in having myself a great day. You can now talk to the hand!
Ah yes, X. The most highly regarded academic journal there is! Thank you for pointing me in the good and right direction, Elon Musk’s Twitter. I’ll make sure I check X first for medical advice next time instead of bothering my doctor.
We're discussing a virus here, so, yes, the knowledge of actual virologists is what's pertinent, not that of botanists, "chiropractors" (lol), and other people who took (at most) a single class in virology and get their Newz via their social media feed.
I'd love to see that list of "scientists"....got a link?
2) the PPC may be a particularly noxious party wrt "MAHA", but they aren't alone - unfortunately canada has a couple officially registered openly antivax parties including the Conservative Party of Canada ( https://x.com/oneplusone10/status/1974503346351608031 ). Thankfully the various factions of antiscientific nuttery are divided amongst themselves, but that could change if a truly charismatic leader emerged to unite them. It Can Happen Here.
I was taken aback by Pelech's gibberish. But we got the real icing on the cake with Bilinski claiming that ostriches survived the meteor strike 65 million years ago.
This piece is super informative. Without a twitter account I can't keep up with the craziness.
Much of your article is over my head (or attention span) but I appreciate and absorbed the points you made. You have put so much effort into spelling out the details, but is it possible you could do a very short summary for interested readers like me?
Incredible stuff Dr Rasmussen. I’m so sorry these idiots have put you through all this. This truly is the dumbest story. Thank you for your commitment to science and human health - not to mention the economy. And sanity.
thanks for the update, Angie. Yes, indeed, you are a bona fide virologist, providing detailed critical analysis of this sordid ostrich saga.
Yes long but so necessary. Thank you. And when I thought it couldn’t get any weirder.. antibodies to meteorite strikes!!
I think it's a disgrace that scientists have to undergo such harassment from people with vested interests in attacking science.
Brilliant! Stand up for science, against the American bullshit that is taking over.
>Science recognizes that people and other animals who have fully recovered from flu aren't walking flu dispensers.
You should actually read what Rasmussen is saying. ie that this is nowhere near as certain as you're making it.
>while never criticizing dangerous gain of function research which is the real danger.
The real danger, where SARS1 & SARS2 came from and where H5n1 high path influenza could easily come from is *the meat industry*. That's where the real danger was, and since very little has changed and given the scale of both industrial farming and the number of people in contact with animals -- *that* is where the big danger is and remains. You don't need gain of function research for a global pandemic, as SARS2 proves - just enough human contact with the meat industry and low enough biosafety precautions involving the processing of animals into meat.
( And I say this as someone who just munched on some pork gyozas, and who has enough bloodsugar to get me through this post because of said meat products )
The “scientists" supporting the cull of the ostriches do not see the governmental tyranny being pushed on the people and animals. If one of them even mentions that fraudulent PCR test that drove covid hysteria and subsequent bioweapon injections in their argument, I toss them in the waste receptacle. We have not moved away from the covid bullshit with these fake scientists.
So in other words, you’re just as big a conspiracy theorist as the MAGA crowd in the USA, don’t cruelly understand ANY of the science, think your feelings are far more important than the health and safety of Canad’as food supply AND it’s citizens and are very easily manipulated to, HATE and RAGE, and believe the same BULLSHIT that Trump and his sycophantic followers used to DESTROY THE USA, “government tyranny”!
I guarantee you’d be in the hospital,in a freaking second if YOU or your kid came down with this virus because it KILLS FAST!
I am so fucking tired of MORONS who know ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING about science of government or anything else but sop up every bit of BULLSHIT, spread all over them by people who have massive ulterior motives and think they’ve been anointed with gold!
Grow the fuck up! And LEARN FACTS!
Have you actually followed this story? Note the actual farmer's feelings about this in the comments. Also, several developments quick have recently come to light...
1. The "ostrich farmer's" don't pay their bills. There are now 2 BC Supreme Court decisions against them for failure to pay their debts (these cases precede their issues with CIFA).
2. The letter they've made available to local news media purporting to be from a local First Nations group is fraudulent (not clear yet who wrote the letter).
3. Do you understand the trade arrangements that Canada has undertaken with respect to poultry and poultry disease? The "farms" stance on this case is endangering the livelyhoods of actual farmers.
4. You do realize that a flock of 400 ostriches is not enough to make a living from.. so this seems like a hobby farm that doesn't take animal health seriously.
“Scientists" equal court jesters now.
Thank you for this. I've been following this story where I can, but as a regular Jane farmer in Northern BC with a little bit of biology under my belt, it's been too frustrating to pay too close attention to it. I sympathize with the farmers in that it would be devastating to cull their flock (I, too, would be devastated if I had to cull my meat animals because even though we eat them, we still love them), but i also recognize that at the end of the day, public health has to come first. This was a (mostly) easy to understand summary of the story and I enjoyed your wit throughout. Thanks again!
Fantastic, thorough, and educational piece. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with such nasty comments, but I very much appreciate learning from your experience and expertise so we all have the ammunition to debunk the misinformation being so rapidly shared. Your reasons for caring are also exactly mine. Thanks again. (I'm Sisu so I especially appreciate the kind shout outs.)
Thank you!!! Right back at you—I’ve learned so much from following you!
Thank you again for your truthful portrayal of evidence surrounding the Ostrich Gate. I for one love how honest you are with your reporting. We need you. Thanks.
Absolutely superb post. Thank you for calling out the disinformation and disassembling the pseudoscience brick by brick. I have been your fan for years, read your papers, and my admiration is only growing.
A very serious subject but I truly enjoyed your wit!
This article is based and winning. Best thing I’ve read all year. Thank you for not being silent about this. It’s nice to know the perspective from someone as experienced, tenured, and educated as yourself.
Politics and people affected with mind-viruses have no business in science, but I don’t expect some small town folk with no life scope to be able to “free think” their way into being educated.. I find it especially hilarious you’ve exposed that the farms group of followers are being conned into doing the farms dirty work just so the farms owner can continue to profiteer off of it under the guise of “freedom”, or whatever the hell they tell themselves to stroke their collective egos. The bottom line is these people have no idea what the hell they’re talking about, I mean their stories and reasons seem to change with every new day. I genuinely hope they read what you’ve wrote here from A to Z but you can only lead a horse to water. The UBC guy situation is informative and unfortunate. The existence of Jordan Peterson made me realize even the intellectual elite can be affected with mind viruses, so no surprise there.
Have a great evening, looking forward to the cull!
"looking forward to the cull" - Wishing a ‘cull’ is ugly. Regardless of the politics, those birds didn’t choose any of this - they’re innocent. Try compassion. And please, let's not celebrate cruelty.
Humans are apex predators, we have always killed to survive. This situation is no different. Human existence is ugly. Virtue signalling does nothing but stroke your own ego. Every meal you’ve ever nourished your body with was innocent too.
The only tragedy here was the neglect that the flock of birds were victims of. It was the neglect that allowed a condition for this disease to spread in the first place. And now, our tax dollars are being wasted because of some headstrong conspiracy theorist refusing to take accountability and the payout. It’s fucking selfish and I hope her ability to conduct this business gets revoked. The cull is a consequence of the tragedy, not the root.
I don’t care how I come across.
Perhaps you’re unaware of the fact that these ostriches are still dying lmfao. Yes, you do continue to shed viral material after symptoms subside and for the sake of not spreading infection further the infected should continue to isolate post recovery for some time. H1N1 and Covid were not so distant memories.. But that’s besides the point, this incident has ballooned to the point of being a liability to the reputation of Canada’s poultry industry at large.
I’m sure the herd was treated real well - so well in fact that a viral outbreak was permitted to run wild and kill nearly a 1/4 of the herd! Treated so well that the neighbours felt the need to involve authorities because of animals dropping dead en masse. I applauded the responsible ownership of livestock, or wait, pets? Sorry, the story changes every hour..
copium
Have you not followed all the information about the "farm"? Thing 1 - a flock of 400 Ostriches is not enough birds to make a living from selling the meat, even at restaurant (wholesale) prices...so these guys are not farmers who actually make an living from farming.
Thing 2 .. There have been a series of court cases involving ordinary commercial debt that the farm wasn't paying prior to this whole thing.
Thing 3. Faked letter stating First Nations support. It's not clear if the "farmers" wrote this letter, it may well have been written by "well meaning, but dishonest sympathizers"...
Thing 4. The wishful thinking that the farm was going to provide "research samples" or even actual pharmaceuticals ..
Thing 5. The potential regulatory problem the actual working poultry industry in Canada is risking (ie over 1 billion in foreign sales)...
I love you so fucking much for writing this and especially for debunking the UBC professor. I knew something was fishy with him but I couldn’t put my finger on it. God I am so happy. I read this entire article out loud to my partner and we literally were yelling “THANK YOU” when you said “PPC is Canada’s MAGA” and “the trucker convoy was Canada’s January 6th”. I have been just as invested in this story as you are. It’s all I think about because if the cull order is not followed through on it means that antivaxers won and our government has been undermined. We are so lucky to have you here in Canada. You are my hero.
You want a cull like this to go through just so a side can win? What a brainless and uneducated comment. Just wasted 20 seconds of my time reading it. I know what side you'll be rotting in.
It’s not so “a side can win” it’s so the rules and regulations of this country are not undermined by a group of uneducated jobless losers that do nothing but scroll Facebook all day. If you don’t believe in science go right ahead but don’t think you can make the rest of the country forget logic and rationality.
What a senseless comment. When it comes to rules and regulations, they've been known to regularly change when logic and facts are brought to the forefront. You try to speak as if to come off as highly intelligent and educated, yet being so emotionally far left, you present yourself as totally mindless to rational thinking. Killing less than 400 healthy ostriches is not going to make a difference in the spread of avian influenza H5N1 when there are millions of migratory birds flying across the continent twice a year infecting everything they come in contact with and defecate on! This has far more to do about government and WHO over reach for control then it has to do now with science at this point, especially seeing these birds have gained herd immunity remaining alive and thriving in health for over 260 days. Get your senseless head out of your a$$ and use some scientific logic here if you still have any left in that brain of yours. Reading the way you and a few of your far left minions interacted here is purely appearing to be on a fear based psychotic front in your attacks. It's unfortunate you can't speak without such a confrontational narcissistic approach. But perhaps that's all we can expect from such far left groups who would enjoys nothing but death it seems to those who don't see near to their point of views. For those who engage in such belittling behavior, recognizing your underlying insecurities as being fear based and working to address them can lead to much healthier interactions and an improved personal self-esteem including a sense of wellbeing overall. I suggest getting yourself some profound counselling which you may benefit from by exploring the root causes of your toxic behavior. Respect toward others without the name calling and childless insults can go a long ways when one is trying to get a point across. Signing out of this conversation thread as I will not further take part responding to such belittling bullying behavior tactics, and about to carry on in having myself a great day. You can now talk to the hand!
Hundreds of virologists? Point me to one that is an actual virologist, not some phony doctor of smoke and mirrors, that disagrees with Angie here.
Ah yes, X. The most highly regarded academic journal there is! Thank you for pointing me in the good and right direction, Elon Musk’s Twitter. I’ll make sure I check X first for medical advice next time instead of bothering my doctor.
We're discussing a virus here, so, yes, the knowledge of actual virologists is what's pertinent, not that of botanists, "chiropractors" (lol), and other people who took (at most) a single class in virology and get their Newz via their social media feed.
I'd love to see that list of "scientists"....got a link?
1) An important detail missed here: they are also raising money via an obvious crypto scam. As a crypto person myself I *must* point this out because scams in crypto space are pervasive, unnecessary, and a threat to the reputation of the entire crypto industry (which given the proliferation of such scammers -- is probably somewhat deservedly low). The UOF grifters makes *all* of us crypto people look bad by association, and the more we remain silent the more their scam reflects us. ( https://www.pauljhenderson.com/b-c-ostrich-meat-farm-owners-hit-with-avian-flu-now-claim-to-be-animal-lovers-scientists-raising-280k-from-online-fundraisers-cryptocurrency/ )
2) the PPC may be a particularly noxious party wrt "MAHA", but they aren't alone - unfortunately canada has a couple officially registered openly antivax parties including the Conservative Party of Canada ( https://x.com/oneplusone10/status/1974503346351608031 ). Thankfully the various factions of antiscientific nuttery are divided amongst themselves, but that could change if a truly charismatic leader emerged to unite them. It Can Happen Here.
I was taken aback by Pelech's gibberish. But we got the real icing on the cake with Bilinski claiming that ostriches survived the meteor strike 65 million years ago.
This piece is super informative. Without a twitter account I can't keep up with the craziness.
Ostrich Facebook is really where the action is
Much of your article is over my head (or attention span) but I appreciate and absorbed the points you made. You have put so much effort into spelling out the details, but is it possible you could do a very short summary for interested readers like me?
Excellent read. Thank you
Incredible stuff Dr Rasmussen. I’m so sorry these idiots have put you through all this. This truly is the dumbest story. Thank you for your commitment to science and human health - not to mention the economy. And sanity.